Does your presence offend people?

Does the presence of children on a holiday or in a restaurant or theatre ruin other people's day?

How do you cope when your arrival leads to an immediate and sharp intake of breath from the other customers? Why are you scrutinised as if you have at worst just committed mass murder or at best tracked a heavy dose of dog mess into a prized rug? Why is it that even the best behaved of children can provoke the most extreme reactions?

See also: Getting from A to B sure isn't child's play

I once read an interesting piece in the Guardian Family section on a village where children are banned. Yes you read it right, banned. Just weeks ago I watched in silent amazement as a woman huffed her way out of a supermarket cafe muttering about "screaming kids" after a baby boy had the most modest of whimpers.

Sitting down to Sunday lunch in a country pub, however close to the cosy fire your family is, you’ll often feel a distinct chill in the air. The atmosphere can make you decidedly ill at ease.So what is it about your presence that so often proves so unsavoury to the other diners?
If you were venturing into a three-starred Michelin eatery with two screaming toddlers then I’d understand the frosty glares.But when it’s a cheap and cheerful place - often even with its own resident bloke in a bear suit or woman dressed like the saddest clown you’ve ever seen - you’ll still feel like the girl picked last for netball.

When we ate out with our girls in the early days, they were without fail their usual unobtrusive selves - no tantrums, no tears, no running around and no filling of nappies - they saved that for when they got home. But still people seemed offended by our blatant show of fertility. Not that we ate out often. Once in a blue moon more like. The stress of the disapproving glances became a bit much for me.

I’d really liked to have literally stuck two fingers up at all the snooty onlookers. But of course I didn’t want to make things more unpleasant than they already were.These days I’m past caring. Children are people too! I’m reliably informed there are now even organisations campaigning for the rights of non-parents.I’m baffled as to what it is they could possibly do.Perhaps they go on placard waving missions to Wacky Warehouses and ring up ITV to complain about Dancing on Ice being recommissioned.

Whatever it is, there’s evidently an increasing army of eager new recruits and judging by our reception in certain restaurants, they’re fighting dirty. 

Comments

[Lucy]

I'm not a parent and it does tick me off that some parents believe they deserve an award just for having kids. Like they've done something really rare.....
But as a non-parent, I still think kids should be allowed to eat anywhere, I'm sure most are better behaved than many adults. If the only restaurants where kids are welcome are fast food joints, then it's no surprise that it's tough getting them to eat healthy meals. We should be more like the French- eating out as a family is not a big deal and children get to taste lots of different foods from an early age.

[Mark]

It's weird how this polarises people. I don't get Lucy's first paragraph at all. I don't recall ever meeting parents who "believe they deserve a medal". What is she referring to??

I do agree with her second bit though. Children deserve a meal out from time to time like everyone else, and we've just learnt to appreciate the particularly child-friendly places. (Our local Pizza Express is wonderful, although others have varied.) But human nature is what it is, and there will always be differing opinions on what is considerate I suppose. For what its worth, I stare and tut at smokers, especially in restaurants, even though they're allowed to smoke. I bet there's a smoker's blog somewhere complaining about me. ;-)

Finally, loved the comment about Dancing On Ice - the current highlight of our girls' week, even if it is Tiswas to Brucie and Tess's Swap Shop!

[Linda]

I think it should be called Botox on Ice!

[Lynne]

I loved this. Every parent can relate to that! It was even worse on the day that my toddler caused an avalanche in a toy shop!

[Camilla]

There are societies called Child Free which moan endlessly about children and they can be rather vicious with it. They seem to have forgotten that they were once children themselves!

I do consciously go to places that are child friendly to make sure they are welcome but my children know full well they are to sit down and behave in a restaurant.

It annoys me that people huff about 'all the flaming kids on holiday in July/August'. Well, that's when the school holidays are. If they don't want to be around kids why not go on holiday in the cheaper other months?

I wonder if some people put themselves in a position where they are around children just so they can moan about them?

[Linda]

Hi Camilla,
Yes that is what I have always thought too - the bit about people forgetting they were children once too. Live and let live, that's what I say :)

[donmacnamara]

If the irresponsible parent was'nt expecting you to share in her rapture at her dribbling child , be amazed and amused at the other child on the floor bawling for fizzy drinks - that would be the child makde up like a tart for a beauty contest - you see the mother was a failed beauty aspirant and wants to relive the moment - and as they head back to the double parked SUV you should smile patiently - she has blocked you in ; it's her right - as she rings her friend on her mobile about that all important coulur scheme she dreamed up for her gaudy house in suburbia.

[Linda]

Hey Don - don't hold back - say what you mean. I'm not sure I've met anyone like that but if I did I'm sure they would tick me off as much as they do you - but what I object to is people in public places assuming that the children cluttering their view are somehow all like that.

[Elle]

Hi
Got this link from The Times after I was linked with regards to the story about why English children are worse off than Dutch children.

I have since then spoken to a journalist and one of my observations is that it feels children are not welcome in this country. The first reaction of other guests, travellers or even friend if you bring your children is one of shock and horror. And if the little sprogs do behave you get applauded for having such lovely children.

That irritates me even more. What is so special about having normal behaved children?

Many adults have a negative attitude and that is the cause of the offence. Not the children.

[Linda]

Hi Elle, yep I couldn't agree more. I once met a mum who told me proudly that her children were at a renowned private school because there, they were taught to say 'please' and 'thank you'. Must never have thought of teaching them herself and just quietly expecting that was the right thing for them to do.

[Times Alpha Mummy blog]

..."I find that only eating at Pizza Express is a good solution..."

[Katie]

I'd have to disagree that they're more accepting of kids abroad, as a general statement anyway, after our family experience in Paris. We took our kids (2 boys - aged 10 and 4) for a weekend in Paris and decided against the predictable 'EuroDisney' tour, instead trying to instill an appreciation of culture into them by taking in the real sights of this fabulous city. Although we had a few dirty looks from fellow passengers as we stepped onto the coach, we did end the day with pleasant comments about how well behaved the boys had been. But I couldn't believe the reception we got in the eateries and shops. Not one shop owner cracked their face with a smile in our direction, and no-one even acknowledged the children, which is the best way to encourage bad behaviour in my opinion. No-one wants to be ignored, do they? The best (or should I say worst) reaction was in a creperie. No sooner had we opened the door than a flustered manageress bustled over muttering (quite loudly) "Oh non! Les Enfants!!" She quickly ushered us through to the back room (sparsely decorated and with a lovely view of the kitchen!!) where a couple of other families had been deposited between the hanging coats of their more desirable customers, who were allowed to eat by the front window. But I have to say, although the surroundings weren't as plush, the atmosphere in the back room was much nicer. Everyone was chatting and laughing and the kids were impeccably behaved - out front, everyone was talking in whispers and darting funny looks at other diners. Surely people looking in the window for somewhere to eat would rather see happy, smiling customers than the sour-faced lot who were afraid to talk to each other?!
Our experience in Menorca, however, couldn't have been more different. Wherever we went the kids were treated like royalty - they were given little gifts by the waitresses, taken by the hand to choose from the dessert tray and even had some lessons in Spanish - which they thought was fantastic!
My comment to restaurant owners is this - who do you think got the biggest tip??? My comment to fellow diners - if you give off negative vibes, you'll get the same back. Why not try giving the kids a little smile and a wink - it doesn't cost anything and you'll usually get a beaming grin back, making the dining experience more pleasant for everyone!

[keda]

always caryy 'THE BAG' that's my motto ;)

http://mamahog.blogspot.com/2006/09/bag-lady.html

[Linda]

Hi Keda, that's one hell of a bag or two!

[keda]

dammit! -y+r

[Amber]

Well, I'm childfree, and will admit to having gazed askance at badly-behaved children in restaurants and the like. In my defence, though, I don't have any problem at all with the well-behaved ones, or even the ones whose parents are clearly doing their best to try and control a tantrum - I mean, kids are kids, sometimes they scream.

Really, it's not children in public places I have a problem with - it's bad behaviour, no matter which age group it comes from. I think you've hit the nail on the head, Linda, by saying that "children are people, too". They can't be expected to be locked away from society until they're 18.

What does bother me, though, is the small amount of parents who allow their children to disrupt other people. For instance, in the library last week, two mothers sat gossiping at a table while their children ran shrieking around the book stacks, bumping into people and knocking things over. In a restuarant a few weeks ago, the parents smiled indulgently as their child climbed up the back of my seat and grabbed my hair.

These things are annoying, but I reserve my feelings of annoyance for the parents, not the children, who are, after all, just doing what children do if they're not being properly supervised. And as I say, these parents are in the minority. I do think that if there was greater tolerance of children in public places, they might have a better chance of learning how to behave in them.

[Cayte]

Sorry to get all cross about this, but non-parents should just get over themselves. Who will be working and paying taxes towards their pensions? Washing and wiping them when they're old and sick? Children aren't a luxury they are a necessity because they grow into adults and continue our glorious species. Crazy, I know, but true.

[Linda]

Hi Amber,

As ever you are a Voice of Reason (TM)

Hi Cayte

Nicely put. But then there are people who would say that having children is automtically selfish as there are too many people in the world already. No I don't get it either. :)